Posts by The Song Remains The Same

20

Outsourcing of printing?

by Lynnie in

i heard through the grapevine this weekend that my second cousin and her husband made a trip to india to investigate possible outsourcing of printed docs for the wtbts.

he is a uber bethelite in the purchasing dept and my cousin is a good bethelite wife.

they were living in brooklyn but have been moved up to wallkill in the last few months.

I'd to see teh business case in this exercise. Usually, you would find a partner who has the infrastructure, a track record, and a workforce. And your outsourcing costs are about more resources for same cost, or same resources for less cost.

Think about it; they pay the JWs next to nothing to print the material, but have to house & feed them probably at low individual cost. With outsourcing, the price will have to cover the labor costs, and other related overhead like insurances, etc. Is the global average cost of a JW print worker less than a fully-loaded Indian print worker? I don't know.

The other cost is all about machinery + ink + paper + distribution.

One could argue that the materials, if all purchased centrally in India, might be cheaper. Clearly that would make a difference given amount of paper they get through...

The machines should already be there, so there is (hopefully) no upfront investment to be made.

But the distribution cost is something that I'd question. Imagine how long it would take to truck or train loads of printed material around the globe? Or by boat? Surely that takes weeks? Air frieght is very expensive. Nobody would wait for the hard copy, they'd all be on-line at jw.org. (Maybe a driving factor, who knows?).

That's my own view. I have no idea how the WT operates its printing and distribution now. It could be a model that TNT, DHL or some other company would envy, or they could have outsourced it all to those guys already and they'll get such a good deal shipping from India they can't turn it down?

Oh, and not to mention the people you (still) need onshore still to ensure the offshore operation is working effectively and delivering as expected...

6

Is the WT really a charity?

by The Song Remains The Same in

further to my enquiries here about the red cross, and also in noticing the autralian financials posted in this thread by jwleaks, i took a look at the uk financial statements helpfully posted at jwleaks here.. there is a lot of good information related to the income and expenses of the wt in the uk over a number of years.

well worth digging into if you are of a business mind for sure.

i will focus on the 2011 statements, found here and here since there seems to be two, one for the watchtower and one for the int'l bible students.

The Song Remains The Same

I'm hoping too... but in the meanwhile I am getting some info for my various discussion points with the edler I'm communicating with

You have to wonder if the heat will get turned up on the likes of the WT and their tax-free status given all the pressure in the past months about Big Companies not paying corporation taxes by legally (perhaps not morally) moving income and expenses to low tax environments. I do hope the WT and etc get the same treatment!!!

6

Is the WT really a charity?

by The Song Remains The Same in

further to my enquiries here about the red cross, and also in noticing the autralian financials posted in this thread by jwleaks, i took a look at the uk financial statements helpfully posted at jwleaks here.. there is a lot of good information related to the income and expenses of the wt in the uk over a number of years.

well worth digging into if you are of a business mind for sure.

i will focus on the 2011 statements, found here and here since there seems to be two, one for the watchtower and one for the int'l bible students.

The Song Remains The Same

Further to my enquiries here about the Red Cross, and also in noticing the Autralian financials posted in this thread by JWleaks, I took a look at the UK financial statements helpfully posted at JWleaks here.

There is a lot of good information related to the income and expenses of the WT in the UK over a number of years. Well worth digging into if you are of a business mind for sure. I will focus on the 2011 statements, found here and here since there seems to be two, one for the Watchtower and one for the Int'l Bible Students. All figures are in GBP.

Can anyone tell if these are totally seperate, or if they move funds between them? i.e. is an expense in one equal to an income in the other?

They have some impressive net assets, added together they total over GBP 110mio (71 + 40 pages 8 & 9)

Income was over GBP 60mio (33.2 + 30.4 page 7 both)

Expenses were 55.7 (18.1 + 37.6 page 7) but this is where it gets interesting, and I get a little out of my depth...

Look at the Resources Expended and then refer to the Notes that are referenced.

For the Int'l Bible Students, Notes 5 & 6 on pages 15 - 17 show that they sent a considerable amount abroad, but very little of was cash, and even then the cash appears to be supporting WT regional activites, nothing about 'real' charitable work? They spent 18mio on charitable activities and 12.4mio on 'grants'?

Then on the WTBTSB, Notes 7 & 8 on pages 14 & 15, again there are listed quote some amounts related to literature, building, etc, but little again that might fall into proper charity work? This part made 37.2mio in charitable activities, 24.3mio in 'grants'.

So a very considerable amount of the expenses is going abroad, supporting other WT operations either with literature (although I though other countries mostly printed their own?), but not really anything about what I consider 'charitable works' saving lives (debatable point with the JWs I know, they consider giving out tracts is saving lives...) or helping poor or homeless populations. It is all admin and literature, not much cash or aid-relief.

Does anyone have a better insight than my high level observations, and even actually know some of the details behind these figures? Or maybe just share some thoughts when you take a look into the numbers?

TSRTS

25

WTBTS and the Red Cross?

by The Song Remains The Same in

hi all, i'm new but have read an awful lot here plus jwfacts and jwsurvey over the past months, also the coc book.. i'm not a jw (and never will be) but have a wife who is a 'want-to-be' jw.

this is quite a challenge for me as i already had an idea on some of the points jws stick to, but now with everything i have learned about the high-control methods, the changing doctrines, and the cover-ups, it's a real concern.... anyway, i was putting forward the notion that jw's don't help anyone in disaster zones, except jws, or by giving out wt tracts or magazines (which would be really useful to homeless, hungry and cold families).

she didn't know, and doubted it, so i told her to ask an elder if the wt provides assistance at all anywhere.. she reported back that the elder said the wt does contribute to the red cross.

The Song Remains The Same

Update: after a bit of a long gap I've got something more on this topic.

I've been pointed to (surprise) some WT literature for examples of good deeds, some recent, and some older. Also the jw.org site under the news / community efforts section (link here).

I took a look at the 'community efforts' and have to say that it's a bit of a small sample, and in some cases not that informative. Maybe others have more details on the actual on-the-ground actions by the JWs in these cases?

Regarding older examples, it centered around an Awake! article (probably early 2002 or 2003?) called "Something No Storm Could Wash Away" which documents help in Germany, Austria, Korea and Mexico and how the JWs helped everyone.

My contact is still looking for info on (cash) donations for me, but remains sure the WT does/did... but nothing firm on the RC

TSRTS

17

Wanted - A 'Reverse Witness'

by The Song Remains The Same in

so the want-to-be-jw wife is getting harder to keep from believing all the nonsense that the wt spouts.

it is really getting me down as it simply does not compute from my perspective (and many on here i suppose) how and why rational and sane individuals would swallow all the garbage... the phrase i hate the most is "imperfect men", it gets me so wound up when i point out the flip-flops and flaws, and then i ask how anyone would follow 'imperfect men'... up next is "but i truely believe they are god's chosen organisation", but i cannot find any basis for that belief whatsoever... arrgghhh.

she went to some big meeting last weekend and came back all happyified.

The Song Remains The Same

Thanks for the good advice everyone. Much appreciated. I am going to 'go silent' at home on the whole JW topic completely for a period as it's stressing me out so much and even starting to have phyiscal symptoms :-(. They have some CO visit, the 'memorial' (now un-branded as was pointed out elsewhere!) so I'll just smile and nod as she arranges to go get happyfied several times in the next weeks.

17

Wanted - A 'Reverse Witness'

by The Song Remains The Same in

so the want-to-be-jw wife is getting harder to keep from believing all the nonsense that the wt spouts.

it is really getting me down as it simply does not compute from my perspective (and many on here i suppose) how and why rational and sane individuals would swallow all the garbage... the phrase i hate the most is "imperfect men", it gets me so wound up when i point out the flip-flops and flaws, and then i ask how anyone would follow 'imperfect men'... up next is "but i truely believe they are god's chosen organisation", but i cannot find any basis for that belief whatsoever... arrgghhh.

she went to some big meeting last weekend and came back all happyified.

The Song Remains The Same

@ding (again) - yes noticed that edit, and all very useful. Have tried some of those but will adapt based on your advice. Again many thanks...

@searcher - good point, may try that too.

@problem - thanks for correcting me about competitive sports. I had it in mind they discourage/don't allow participation? And I know an insider would get found out, I'm just wishful thinking right now...

@nonjwspouse - I think I know exactly how you feel . This site is great for learning how to deal with this situation, and the folks on here have all so far responded really helpfully in the few threads I've started. I'm glad I found it. Good luck to you too!

17

Wanted - A 'Reverse Witness'

by The Song Remains The Same in

so the want-to-be-jw wife is getting harder to keep from believing all the nonsense that the wt spouts.

it is really getting me down as it simply does not compute from my perspective (and many on here i suppose) how and why rational and sane individuals would swallow all the garbage... the phrase i hate the most is "imperfect men", it gets me so wound up when i point out the flip-flops and flaws, and then i ask how anyone would follow 'imperfect men'... up next is "but i truely believe they are god's chosen organisation", but i cannot find any basis for that belief whatsoever... arrgghhh.

she went to some big meeting last weekend and came back all happyified.

The Song Remains The Same

@ding, Thanks. You are probably, and unfortunately, right. But it is hard to do in practice.

Note to self - try not to point out the glaringly obvious flaws in the WTBTS doctrine, ethics and logic, or that it's a magazine company...

17

Wanted - A 'Reverse Witness'

by The Song Remains The Same in

so the want-to-be-jw wife is getting harder to keep from believing all the nonsense that the wt spouts.

it is really getting me down as it simply does not compute from my perspective (and many on here i suppose) how and why rational and sane individuals would swallow all the garbage... the phrase i hate the most is "imperfect men", it gets me so wound up when i point out the flip-flops and flaws, and then i ask how anyone would follow 'imperfect men'... up next is "but i truely believe they are god's chosen organisation", but i cannot find any basis for that belief whatsoever... arrgghhh.

she went to some big meeting last weekend and came back all happyified.

The Song Remains The Same

So the Want-to-be-JW wife is getting harder to keep from believing all the nonsense that the WT spouts. It is really getting me down as it simply does not compute from my perspective (and many on here I suppose) how and why rational and sane individuals would swallow all the garbage... The phrase I hate the most is "imperfect men", it gets me so wound up when I point out the flip-flops and flaws, and then I ask how anyone would follow 'imperfect men'... up next is "but I truely believe they ARE god's chosen organisation", but I cannot find any basis for that belief whatsoever... Arrgghhh.

She went to some big meeting last weekend and came back all happyified. I sent her with a list of things to look out for that the WT was doing/using (hypocrisy, fear, guilt, and if the people were really happy not like 'dinner-party happy'). Apparently she saw nothing of the sort . The funny thing was she described some guy saying that being in god's organisation was like being in the olympics and having to be able to jump 'so high' just to be considered for the high jump team... I had to point out this small hypocritical point of them using a comparison with something that they themselves actually ban for members, i.e. competitive sports

Anyway, the point of the post is this; it would be really great to find a witness (a 'reverse witness') in every congregation that could be relied upon to steer away those that are considering joining, especially those that are completely random-walk-off-the-street types who have a loving, caring and concerned (non-JW) family or friends around them who know that it will all end in tears... the reverse witness can go through the motions but in the process of proving the WT points actually show that they are not so, and thus cast huge doubt in the mind of the study and ultimately get them away/out. It can be done to a small or large degree. Kind of like, "So let's look at topic X. Here is what the WT says, and now let's check the bible. Oh, it says something different. Hmmm. Well I guess the WT may have go that wrong. Let's move on shall we?" I read in a thread that nobody ever really managed to convert people to JW-ism anyway, so it wouldn't get noticed in terms of personal stats .

Where can I find one!!!!

34

Porneia in marriage - a changing view:

by Splash in

1974 - can divorce your marriage mate if they insist on oral / anal intercourse.

1978 - can still divorce your marriage mate if they insist on oral / anal intercourse.

1983 - cannot divorce your marriage mate if they insist on oral / anal intercourse.

The Song Remains The Same

IMO the changes, or more importantly the close-down of certain activities, could reflect practices that were carried out by those who had the power to set the rules and therefore did not want to fall foul of them...

I found Chapter 3 in CoC about this very interesting in terms of the mess they got themselves into, and with specific ref. to pg.54 of my copy where RF describes the case of a woman who's husband had @n@l s3x with another woman and the GB determined the wife had no grounds for scriptural divorce... quite bizarre

100

JW bumper stickers

by innerpeace in

jw
friends

so my husband (who was never a jw) saw a christian bumper sticker today and asked me if the witnesses have any.

i said no (not that i know of anyway) so here are a few he came up with.. 'honk if you're a zombie'.

'my other car is noah's ark'.

The Song Remains The Same

"I'm not lost, direction supplied by the GB/FDS"

"WTBTS - we stop to pet lions"